The 50th Maudsley Debate – CBT FOR PSYCHOSIS

I attended this event the 50th Maudsley Debate in London, “CBT for Psychosis”. I like to go to these debates and I was pleased with the outcome.

I asked Elizabeth about CBT and she said it helped her and if something helps her then I am in favour. It is the mind altering drugs that have been oversold in my opinion and at the end of this blog I list the drugs that Elizabeth has been on and none have worked.

The 50th Maudsley Debate CBT For Psychosis
I was delighted to have a front seat. My thoughts were that I was on time and had paid for a cab to get me to these debates so why should I have to go to another room especially as I as a mother am very much affected in terms of the care on offer. I did not get up this time and speak but told the panel later that my daughter said it was helpful to her. Whilst experts may argue that the drug Clozapine is good but I would strongly disagree – how can this be when Elizabeth shocked me by some of her comments when she came to stay at Xmas. If this drug is meant to destroy her memory as to painful events like ECT destroys not only painful memories but extremely happy memories then none of these kind of barbaric treatments are working from what Elizabeth said. Having said this there are some people who do not mind having these treatments and do not mind being labelled but then there are others like Elizabeth who has had one label after another and a cocktail of poisonous chemicals one after the other and several at the same time which is destroying her physical health and adding to her decline mentally. It is not CBT that is being oversold in my opinion it is the poisonous chemicals that I cannot even refer to as medication as they have failed my daughter but then that is not surprising as she could have a physical condition which has been misdiagnosed by psychiatrists. That would explain why the drugs are not working.

Well once the debate had ended, I had a lot more to talk about than just CBT. I know of many people like myself with sons/daughters who wish with all their heart that something could be done for their sons and daughters on lengthy sections and I have been able to challenge such a section recently with research that I had read about and Elizabeth is no longer on a section and she should never have been on one in the first place as nothing was done properly and the Bethlem caused the psychosis by doing a reduction too steeply and how on earth can such a reduction be done in 2 weeks. Whilst such debates/conferences are good and are taking place more frequently the one thing that is needed most of all is NOT being provided and that is a facility like Chy Sawel. The acute wards have failed my daughter and others I know of and it is no wonder why – the main care was drugs and patients do not get listened to, so there needs to be better facilities and alternatives and a completely different approach as patients should be treated individually and there must be consideration as to what happened to that patient in the first place and that should be addressed before giving the drugs. Where possible families should be included and not excluded like so many are. There needs to be urgent action as young peoples’ lives are being destroyed and why should someone have to put up with a lifetime of drugging especially when a diagnosis is in doubt and they are treatment resistant.

I discussed afterwards about the CEP. I am pleased and full of hope about the CEP (Council for Evidence Based Psychiatry) as I see this as real hope that something even more will come out of this as everything is most unsatisfactory and so many people are totally unaware of what is really going on – situations where lives are being put at risk by the continuance of treatment that is ineffective and harmful when in fact there could be underlying physical health problems that are preventing a patient from getting any better and this is why I would like to see Chy Sawel set up. I do not believe anyone should be written off as being beyond hope at all.

I was pleased with the voting that took place at the Maudsley Debate and afterwards I spoke to everyone on the panel and told them that CBT was helpful to my daughter and better than the drug treatment which has not worked.

I complained to Professor Murray about the Bethlem where he referred her and promised her in writing a drug free period of assessment. I told him that there was no way such a drug free period could possibly take place effectively in just 2 weeks. I complained to him about the Metformine and he said that this would not have been given without good reason but now the GP has taken her off it as he could see no reason why she should be on it. When Prof Murray told me it was for weight loss I was able to show him what knowledge I gained on this drug and as regards the other – Clozapine I do not have a good word to say for it and I told Dr James MacCabe exactly what I thought about this drug and what I had seen of his presentation/research which I was not happy with. I was able to tell him what harm this drug was doing and in fact if he was meant to promote this drug if anything judging by the response of other mothers they were likewise disgusted. I told him that he should be concentrating on research that was more useful such as looking at the physical health of patients like my daughter who could have an Endocrinal Disorder and nothing wrong with her mentally at all. This drug was given against my daughter’s wishes, her Advanced Declaration ignored by the team at the Bethlem and I was told “its all about Clozapine here” – I was far from happy as Professor Murray had promised a drug free period of assessment and nothing was done properly and look what they did and where was his one or two contacts? and as for Dr MacCabe I told him that the patients were not being shown everything they should be shown as I saw what was handed to my daughter which barely went into any depth as to the harm of these drugs. Just one look at his presentation would be enough to put the world off taking this. In fact perhaps this is a positive thing as this is being informative to mothers like myself. – I felt my daughter was abandoned at the Bethlem and as for the Clozapine which is supposedly the drug of last resort in psychosis – I have heard that withdrawal from it is likely to lead to relapse but then again nothing is done properly in the UK as regards withdrawal and I know there are people that know how to do things properly and what is dangerous is that a withdrawal is not properly monitored and that is why there should be a facility when things go wrong in terms of treatment like they have for my daughter. It is disgusting is that a relapse from these drugs or any withdrawal symptoms could well lead to the mental health team intervening and acute admission to hospital. That enforces the argument for different alternative care to be provided of a humane nature where there is minimal drugging ie., Chy Sawel which would be modelled on Earth House in the US and I also like to look of Cooper RIIs. In the absence of Clozapine – PRN medication will be Lorazepam and Haloperidol and Haloperidol has far worse side effects and adverse reaction so I have been told. So my daughter would need very close medical supervision for any proposed downward titration of her present dose which was raised by the consultant psychiatrist at Cambian who abruptly when I found out everything that was being said and going on behind my back. As Elizabeth would need very close medical supervision for any proposed downward titration of her present dose then as far as I am concerned this should be provided with proper monitoring as none of this is being done properly either in the UK and that is highly dangerous. If a team of experts have the knowledge to push these harmful drugs then they have the knowledge or should do to properly take someone off them when they do not work and certainly there are such experts in the UK and they may not be just psychiatrists but the Professors themselves who know the correct dosage of Clozapine ie., 100mg and I am going to make sure my daughter is put on the correct therapeutic dose of this awful drug at the very least.

I hope that the CEP who intend to identify gaps in existing research, with a view to supporting new research into under-reported areas of psychiatric harm, as well as alternatives to the medical model will get involved in a specialist treatment centre (such as Chy Sawel) to help people like my daughter who will suffer from physical health problems if nothing is done and who are “treatment resistant” to the drugs. The mission of the CEP is to REDUCE PSYCHIATRIC HARM BY COMMUNICATING THE LATEST EVIDENCE TO POLICY MAKERS AND PRACTITIONERS BY SHARING THE TESTIMONY OF THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN HARMED LIKE ELIZABETH AND BY SUPPORTING RESEARCH INTO AREAS WHERE EVIDENCE IS LACKING. Well the way they can reduce psychiatric harm is by looking at how best they can help someone like my daughter and what facility is needed and as I and other mothers have identified this facility is Chy Sawel.

As for the label of Paranoid Schizophrenia Treatment Resistant which my daughter does not have any more and the team are still sticking by – I am not having that report by the Independent doctor dismissed by ANYONE – THE NEW DIAGNOSIS IS PTSD and the treatment should be INTENSIVE TRAUMA THERAPY. I would also like to add holistic care and open dialogue and the involvement of Dr Walsh and I must speak to the new consultant psychiatrist about this. Schizophrenia is a value judgement NOT A DIAGNOSIS. To date no marker has been identified and after 30 years of genetics no one is any closer to finding it. I have always doubted this diagnosis as my younger daughter is on top of the world and the drugs themselves can cause hallucinations – in any case even if someone does hear voices there are people out there like Eleanor Longden and Rufus May who could help so many with their approach and this is better than all the drugs in the world. MANY SUFFERING FROM PSYCHIATRIC SyMPTOMS ARE VICTIMS OF INJURY NOT OF DISEASE AND WHAT IS MORE THIS IS NOT A THEORY. THE EFFECT OF DRUGS ON THOSE WITHOUT THE NECESSARY P450 cytochromes or those whose ability to metabolise the drugs has been adversely affected by concomitant drug interventions – this is not a theory – this is a scientific fact.

I like the fact that the CEP communicates evidence of the damaging effects of psychiatric drugs and treatments in the UK to people and institutions that can make a difference. Evidence shows that psychiatric drugs portrayed as useful and efficacious by many areas of the medical profession can cause considerable harm to many patients particularly when taken long term. Well I do not want Elizabeth on these drugs long term and I would like to see everyone get together – all the experts in withdrawal and Professors who really know how the drugs work and do something to help my daughter and others. “Mum, I do not think the drugs are doing me any good”. You can see the decline and I have proof by private test results. I spoke at the debates to the panel of the effects on my daughter and how she is in bed by around 6pm, needs to be supported whilst walking, has lost so much confidence she cannot go out on her own. She is living a half life. The care home is nice however it is still a distance away and the treatment is not going to change and it is wrong what is going on in the UK – I am prepared to pay for every test to be done.

Here is the shocking care of my daughter:

CIPRALEX,RISPIRIDAL,ABILIFY,LORAZEPAM,PROMAZINE,DIAZEPAM,OLANZAPINE,HALOPERIDOL,ZOPICLONE,SEROQUEL 750MG- 800mg,CHLORAZEPAM – other skin medication which the GP forgot all about until I challenged this.

METFORMINE 500MG ) – these are contra indicated drugs prescribed by the Royal Bethlem Hospital for no reason and supposedly given off label for weight loss.
CLOZAPINE 350MG ) The GP has take her off this chemical quite rightly so as I requested to know if my daughter had diabetes and I am not sure that the files were forthcoming from the Bethlem but I intend to find out why my daughter was given a drug off label that is contra indicated. I have looked into all of this and discovered that ONLY AN ENDOCRINOLOGIST CAN SUPERVISE THE USE OF METFORMIN OFF LICENSE and only one indication for Metformin is licensed. The Endocrinologist should know if increased prolactin has induced any disturbances such as gynacomastia, galactorhoea etc. Now that I have looked into all of this I am extremely interested as to what has been going on and if the GP in Wales could see no reason why my daughter was on this chemical then I as a mother wish to know why she was put on it in the first place. Metformin is NOT indicated or licensed as a preventative drug for diabetes in Clozapine use.

What is the most important thing of all is that everyone in the team as well as the family should know WHY Elizabeth was put on this in the first place. It could mean that someone in the team at the Bethlem had identified a dysfunction and this is where communication is extremely important between the GP and hospital and I must check that the files arrived in the end for the GP as I know the GP had requested these files and they had not arrived when I last asked. I need to see the new GP where Elizabeth is now so I can check all of this information.

It could be dangerous to Elizabeth if things have not been done properly and it is a good job that I look into all of this and I am not the only mother who is checking what is going on.

Anyway, I have already discussed all of this with the current team and hope to have appointments to see the new GP, the consultant psychiatrist, an Endocrinologist and arrange all the private tests very shortly as I have time off to sort this out.
Here are just some of the symptoms that the team have ignored that Elizabeth has complained of.
HEADACHES
INDIGESTION
DIZZINESS
PALPITATIONS
HEART STRAIN
CONFUSION
SUICIDAL THOUGHTS
AKATHISIA
SKIN PROBLEMS
HALLUCINATIONS
DISORIENTATION
PANIC ATTACKS
WEIGHT GAIN
TIREDNESS
AGORAPHOBIA

I suggested to Dr MacCabe that there needs to be a debate about physical health and was able to discuss some of the research I had read about which puts diagnoses into question and if patients are not getting better and acute wards overflowing then it is urgent that everything is looked at in terms of physical health and I want more than a debate but something done as I do not want Elizabeth on this awful drug for the rest of her life and what is more I do not want her taken off in a shocking manner like someone is taken off immediately if for instance there is a blood disorder. Things should be done slowly and gradually and properly monitored.

For the first time I was allowed to visit Elizabeth and go to her room which was very nice but I am concerned that not everything has been sent ie the supplements and the oils from Dr Tracy and I have today written to Cambian about this. I had this trouble before and had to deal with the Bethlem about this but they do not appear to have been sent and I am waiting to hear about this.

It was good to see so many members of Speak Out Against Psychiatry there at the debate and these are the people – the patients themselves that the team should be learning from in terms of how to improve the care and everyone is keen to see open dialogue.

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3 comments
    • Thank you so much for sending me this post. Unlike the press I wish to feature it in my blog as it is important to fair in reporting everything and it gives me an opportunity to comment.

      It is assumed that this young man had been taking street drugs for a long time ie “speed” – well if that was the case then how come his family knew nothing about any problems with him. You would know instantly and when I look back to when Elizabeth was put on Cipralex I must admit I knew nothing about these prescribed drugs and thought she was taking street drugs. HOW WRONG WAS I. Her behaviour changed dramatically, her skin, her appearance showed the effect of these drugs when Elizabeth never took drugs in the first place. Elizabeth also did not drink alcohol either but once on the anti-depressants this led to her drinking and eating unhealthy food and she originally a vegetarian who did not drink. In fact she was immaculate, studying, working etc doing OK with her life. To this day I do not know who advised her to go and see her GP – certainly not me as I would have advised against. From my personal experience these doctors straight away like to push drugs and do not test to see if someone can metabolize them.

      My point is that it is not just street drugs that can have the most damaging effects. Anti-depressants can act in this way and no proper tests are given to patients to see whether someone can metabolize the drugs. “significant numbers of patients are non-metabolisers or poor metabolisers and that will cause wide variations in the effective dose of many drugs and some will not work at all”

      It is also wrongly assumed that psychosis is drug induced. This may not be the case at all – There are many cases where psychosis is caused by endocrine problems. It is very common and history’s most famous patient King George III was one of them (Porphyria). A defective thyroid and hypothalamus can manifest themselves in psychosis and the brain itself is a part of the endocrine system. Many patients would benefit from a trip to see an endocrinologist. There was a case where a psychiatrist was severely criticised for admitting a patient and treating them for psychosis. This woman had had major surgery on her thyroid and damage had been done to the thymus and the psychiatrist had failed to take account of the endocrine disorder before commencing treatment. When treated with drugs for the endocrine deficiencies she recovered fully. Many people can go on to live without management drugs but not everyone can and the SSRI’s, drugs have caused many deaths – this is something not reported in the press. These prescribed drugs can cause suicidal thoughts. Sure enough Elizabeth felt suicidal on Cipralex. It is the Pharma Industry and quack physicians who should be questioned. Instead an article such as this is centred on tragic shootings and many such articles portray mental health patients in a terrible way but you should always look further for the real truth. Was this young man on any anti-depressants prescribed by his doctor? In other similar cases what was the prescribed medication given and what tests were carried out by that person’s psychiatrist to determine whether the drugs could be metabolized and whether that person had any underlying physical conditions such as endocrinal disorders? This article only mentions street drugs but in fact the prescribed drugs can have a devastating effect on some patients whereas they may be helpful to others. I have seen the effects of these prescribed drugs. No proper tests are done to see if someone can metabolize the drugs and significant numbers of patients are non or poor metabolisers. That will cause wide variations in the effective dose of many drugs and some will not work at all.

      An article like this is what you mainly see featured in the press which gives a one sided account of mental health patients when in fact there could be far more to this story that is not reported in this article and that so many people are not informed of. No matter how shocking the article I always look beyond this as I have read so many books on the subject now and this has led me to question the treatment of people like my daughter. It is a shame the press do not feature about physical illness and how proper testing is not carried out before psychiatric drugs are given. The blame is centred on the person who took so called illegal drugs but the prescribed drugs can act in the same way and often patients and their families are not warned of this fact properly. You are also not warned that there is no help to come off these drugs, no centres to go in where this can be done safely but IT IS DONE – YES SOMEONE IS TAKEN OFF THE DRUGS BUT ONLY WHEN THEY HAVE A VERY SERIOUS BLOOD DISORDER – so the drugs are given with no thought to that person’s physical health and no proper assessment in the first place with an Endocrinologist. Many people put too much trust in doctors but I have already pointed out how doctors do not properly communicate between each other ie the psychiatrist with the GP leading to my daughter being unnecessarily on Metformine for 3 years. In the book Pharmageddon by Professor David Healy he talks of the way the drugs are passed and nothing surprises me that is for sure. I have also been recommended “Images of Trauma” by Professor David Healy. Many patients have suffered traumatic events/tragedy in their lives and this thanks to psychiatrists has led to experimentation with drugs, sometimes several are given at the same time.

      In the UK there is an organisation (CEP) The Council for Evidence-based Psychiatry which exists to communicate the evidence of the damaging effects of psychiatric drugs and treatment to the people and institutions that can make a difference An organisation such as this who have members including psychiatrists, academics, withdrawal support charities and others who are deeply concerned about the prevalence of the medical model and increasing numbers of potentially damaging prescriptions given to both adults and children – this is something that should be well publicised as I think it is a very positive thing and it is thanks to doctors such as Dr Joanna Moncrieff that you get fair reporting and I could not agree more with what she is saying. A narrative diagnosis should be used “THE PATIENT’S SYMPTOMS OCCURRED FOLLOWING A TRAUMATIC EVENT/S AND COINCIDED WITH EXPERIMENTATION WITH DRUGS, FOLLOWING COMPLULSIVE PLAYING OF VIOLENT GAMES. This type of narrative diagnosis attempts to get to the root of the psychotic problems rather than simply tagging it with a label and attendant pharmaceutical intervention. Some Psychopharmaceuticals inhibit some of the P450s, CYP2D6 in particular and this is why some patients do not respond to drug interventions and can suffer very bad reactions.

      Here is my conclusion – This article is typical of what you see in the Press and you are never going to get the whole truth in an article.

      Here is the truth “Psychiatry has its head in the sand: Royal College of Psychiatrists rejects discussion of crucial research on antipsychotics”

      Fact Orthodox psychiatry is a religion and it is not allowed to question the tents of the faith. They persecute heretics. Fact is there is NO MONEY TO BE MADE FROM NON-DRUG THERAPTIES AND MILLIONS TO BE MADE FROM PRESCRIBING THEM. Important studies are being ignored. The finger of blame is pointed at the patient and street drugs. Psychiatry is based on belief systems not on science. A poor metabolizer would be determined by medical tests that rely on evidence, a knowledge of physiology and biochemistry rather than a form of ideological zealotry and THAT IS THE HALLMARK OF MODERN PSYCHIATRY.

      I would be delighted to speak to Las Vegas World News as the public needs to be better informed -now they should feature physical illness and misdiagnosis/ evidence based facts instead of speculation and assumptions.

    • and CBT is the correct treatment that should be given to my daughter for PTSD. I have checked NICE Guidelines and can see no mention of Clozapine and so the new diagnosis is not being treated properly in my opinion as CBT actually helped my daughter but there are other things too that helped – none of them being drugs by the way.

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